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Post by Kizzume on Oct 17, 2007 17:33:10 GMT -5
That actually brings up a good question.
The reason being is because of all the people who CALL themselves Christians, like Pat Robertson and James Dobson and many many others, who ruin it for the tolerant Christians.
Pat Robertson and James Dobson wish for a world where Measure 9 would have passed, where if a person is gay, they cannot get a job, insurance, and no books can be sold with gay characters that aren't depicted as sinners. They wish for a world where everyone is a Christian. They wish for a theocracy.
There is a desire for many people involved in politics who call themselves Christians to make this country into something that is somewhat theocratic. That is downright scary to me.
I don't think teachers should lead prayers in public schools, nor do I think teachers should talk about his or her opinion of how horrible sinners are, or how God views this or that.
I think places where "God" has been inserted into things artificially over the past 120 years should be removed. In places where it WAS originally, no problem.
I think "In God We Trust" should be taken off all our currency, since it wasn't originally there in the first place--it was added in the 1890's. I think "under god" should be removed from the Pledge since it wasn't originally in it either.
I believe STRONGLY that people should be able to practice whatever religion they want, provided that they don't trample on the rights of others in order to be able to practice that religion, and don't break laws that usually apply to everyone else.
I guess I can't fully relate with the atheist mindset, since I'm not really an atheist. It seems that atheists believe that there is absolutely no chance that there is such a thing as ANY sort of God in any form or way of looking at things, and to me that's as fanatical as Pat Robertson but on the opposite side.
Science explains the how
Religion explains the why
When science tries too hard to explain the why, it gets muddy, but it takes a while.
When religion tries to explain the how, it gets muddy very quickly.
This has turned into more of a rant than a decent post....
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Post by jq on Oct 18, 2007 2:20:24 GMT -5
I believe STRONGLY that people should be able to practice whatever religion they want, provided that they don't trample on the rights of others in order to be able to practice that religion, and don't break laws that usually apply to everyone else. I believe that too, but not just for religion. I believe it should be that way with everything. If what you do doesn't harm someone else, you should be allowed to do it. I guess I can't fully relate with the atheist mindset, since I'm not really an atheist. It seems that atheists believe that there is absolutely no chance that there is such a thing as ANY sort of God in any form or way of looking at things, and to me that's as fanatical as Pat Robertson but on the opposite side. It is like the old saying goes, extremism in anything is just extremism. |
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Post by Hackfest on Oct 18, 2007 2:29:39 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that ANY measure has been presented to be voted for that would condemn people to die by not allowing them to work. I'd like to know more about that. Pat Robertson on the other hand, there's a guy that does for Christians what Michael Moore does for Democrats. Eeesh! Seeing people like that though, further my resolve to all the more show people another side of Christianity. I think that prayer should be in schools, but only by choice. Janeane Garofalo more represents the type of atheist in my quote. Unfortunately, every atheist I've ever met on any message board rings in like her. Religion has no place explaining the how. The Bible says God did it, it doesn't give a blueprint.
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Post by jq on Oct 18, 2007 2:53:39 GMT -5
Well I'd say you almost have to be pretty passionate about your feelings regarding God to call yourself an atheist. I mean an atheist is someone who is sure there is no God. Seems to me like the only people who are sure there is no God are really angry people who have been hurt by someone religious. If someone doubts God, they probably would be more like an agnostic. But it seems that maybe atheism is extreme in nature because of its absolutism.
I'd say the only thing I am absolute about is that I am going to die. But I certainly don't think I have enough knowledge to make a statement like "there is definitely a God," or "there is definitely not a God." I hope there is a God, and I believe there is a God, but yeah, you get the point.
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Post by Kizzume on Oct 18, 2007 3:02:27 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that ANY measure has been presented to be voted for that would condemn people to die by not allowing them to work. I'd like to know more about that. Pat Robertson on the other hand, there's a guy that does for Christians what Michael Moore does for Democrats. Eeesh! Seeing people like that though, further my resolve to all the more show people another side of Christianity. I think that prayer should be in schools, but only by choice. Janeane Garofalo more represents the type of atheist in my quote. Unfortunately, every atheist I've ever met on any message board rings in like her. Religion has no place explaining the how. The Bible says God did it, it doesn't give a blueprint. There were measures I think in 4 different states. In Oregon it was called Measure 9. It almost passed. It really WAS what I described. It WAS being pushed by groups with names similar to focus on the family (I can't remember the exact names), and it was being pushed out with misleading wording, stating that it was trying to promote equal rights. It was a horrible sham of wording. It PASSED in Colorado and it took several months to get it taken off the books for being unconstitutional, but the fact that it actually passed is scary. When a whole group of people get demonized, it's easy to get people to follow awful things. Myself and a couple friends posed as religious types and snuck into the planning meeting for the one in Washington. We had read the whole text from front to back several times and were prepared. We made the speaker say "It doesn't say that anywhere. Yeah, but that's not what it meant." 3 different times, and by that time most of the people at the meeting had changed their mind because the false wording that was being spoken by the speaker did NOT match what was on paper. These things really HAVE been pushed out. Let us make no mistake about it. |
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Post by Hackfest on Oct 18, 2007 6:14:11 GMT -5
Great post jq! Kizzume, unfortunately I tend to believe you even without knowing anymore about it. When I read your post just now and you mentioned misleading wording, and a horrible sham of wording, that sounded really familiar. And then the "getting it taken off the books for being unconstitutional", well I've seen that happen before, so why not with this? And you're correct about entire groups of people being demonized being scary. It really is sad how much stuff they try to pull over on the people, politicians I mean. Scary stuff.
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