What good do gay pride marches do?

[Kizzume]

I actually think that gay pride marches do more of a disservice to the gay community BECAUSE of the way that people, including media, always focus on the most extreme aspects to them.

One of the things that really bugs me about the marches is how so many people who are marching in them seem to take the attitude that being gay isn't about who you are attracted to, like it's something else completely. I am still in disbelief about getting kicked out of:

1. an Act Up meeting because I suggested that wearing pink tu-tu's and 2 foot high hairpieces isn't the best way to try to tell people that, to quote them, "we're just like everyone else".

2. a gay pride planning meeting for suggesting that instead of bickering about the name because it was accepting of so many different types of people (gay, lesbian, transgendered, blah blah blah parade), why not just call it the sexual openness parade.

Both of them resuled in people chanting the same exact phrase--yes, both times--"You're just a bigot. Bigot! Bigot! Bigot!"

I'll never forget it.

The one thing I DIDN'T say about that anti-gay meeting was that just when we had gotten people to realize that what was on paper wasn't what was coming out of the speaker's mouth, a big group of people barge into the room, wearing outlandish outfits, holding hands together and saying, "You're all just a bunch of bigots. Shame. Shame. Shame" and circled the entire room slowly, saying "shame" over and over again in unison until they finally left the room. They had ruined almost everything my friends and I had worked on at that meeting.

I'll just say that I don't like "gay politics". So much of it is dishonest, and sometimes it's so dishonest that sometimes I'm ashamed to be gay JUST BECAUSE of how dishonest some of the political aspects to it often are. I don't really want to go into the details--I'd prefer to leave it vague, at least at this time.

Pride marches would be great if they were to regulate them to not have outlandish stuff, but then it wouldn't be much of a parade--everyday straight folk watch it simply because it is usually so outrageous.

I still wish that there was simply a sexual openness parade. Let anyone who feels suppressed be as weird as they want to that day.--almost like having a huge mardigras celebration but it doesn't have to be in New Orleans.

[Hackfest]

That was a great post. I have a gay friend who would completely agree with this! He gets really frustrated by much of the same things you mention here. Amazing how zeal can cloud someone's better judgment eh? That would have to be the case for a sane person to think it was horrible to suggest your first point. Well, zeal or fear I suppose, but still.

[Ess2s2]

Okay, I'm just going to skim across a couple of points here, I'll most likely revisit this topic and go into more depth, but for now...

If anything, Gay Pride parades hold the gay community as a whole back. I'm not homophobic, I used to be and I learned a very hard lesson about being judgmental and bigoted and I have never lived it down. with that taken into consideration, (and bearing in mind my posts on the "What I'm not" thread regarding personal appearance) I think that the ultimate goal of the gay/lesbian community, to be accepted unconditionally is constantly pushed backwards with each of these parades and rallies. I don't go around, get 300 of my friends and hold a "I'm just like everyone else parade".

As I mentioned in one of my other threads, you can't hold out that you're an individual and expect to be treated like everyone else. I personally am all for gays and lesbians to have every right that anyone else does. Your sexual preference should never preclude you from any rights the general populous enjoys, including marriage, state benefits, educational programs, etc. At the same time, being gay should not entitle you to any additional benefits above and beyond anyone else.

If you want equality, have equality, but don't expect "equality plus".

In the everyday average Joe's mind, Gay pride parades, rallies, protests, and other public events raise an eyebrow at the least, and an alarm at the most. Flamboyant (sorry, no better word available) demonstrations usually carry a self-contradicting message, the chants and signs say "I'm the same as you, I'm the same!" whereas the actions, behavior and attitude says "I'm different! Notice me! I'm different!"

Also, as you mentioned Kizzume, there is a strong current of reverse anti-tolerance pervading these functions, which works to destroy any mutual understanding between people of different mores and opinions. Even as you illustrated, it works to alienate members of its own community who strive for something besides the "us versus them" mentality.

I am NOT against freedom of expression, in nearly any context. Conversely, I have attended some gay/lesbian-centric functions that were quiet, organized, and delivered with a message of tolerance, inviting people from any and all personal backgrounds to participate in and explore the gay and lesbian's community contributions, issues, and struggles. One such function was a combined potluck/art exhibit which featured dishes and artwork stemming from the gay community. Keynotes were offered throughout the day discussing political and social hurdles and proposing possible solutions.

It sadly seems that people get so caught up in being different, or that they want to be treated so much like everyone else, that they forget there is a balance that needs to be struck.

(Okay, so I didn't skim over points as much as I kind of tackled them lightly, but still, there is more to be said that I will hold off on for now.)

[Kizzume]

I really like your insight. That was a great post.

[Coyote]

Uh, I can understand feeling ambivalent about some issues, but is it really possible for a gay man to be a bigot (against gays)?

For what it's worth, Kizz, I tend to agree with you on some levels. A pride parade is one thing, but some cities take it over the top and give the rest of us a bad name.

[Kizzume]

coyote said:

Uh, I can understand feeling ambivalent about some issues, but is it really possible for a gay man to be a bigot (against gays)?

For what it's worth, Kizz, I tend to agree with you on some levels. A pride parade is one thing, but some cities take it over the top and give the rest of us a bad name.

As far as it being possible for a gay man to be a bigot against gays, you just have to look as far as Larry Craig.

[Hackfest]

Or my confused friend that I mentioned.

[debateman]

Far be it from me to dissent from the rational queer theorists, but I think that despite the negatives, Pride can have a MASSIVE positive impact. Just a little of my story to provide some insight...

I grew up in a very sheltered house in a very small, very conservative part of the world. I really didn't hear the word gay until I was in high school, or the word homosexual for that matter. All I heard was the word faggot. Growing up and realizing that the word meant you wasn't pleasant as I'm sure you are all too aware.

I didn't kiss my first boy until I was 20 and even then I was frightened that I was going straight to hell and that I could never have a family. I was going to be cut off from my relatives, no children, living a sinful/evil lifestyle that promotes promiscuous sex and tries to convert children.

When my friends finally convinced me to go to Pride, I was scared. When I got there I was overwhelmed by the 'queerness' that was abound. Soon however, I began to become comfortable there. Pride was the first time that I was really able to relate to others and be proud of who I was. I got hooked up with the Metropolitan Community Church, the Human Rights Campaign, and the Stonewall Democrats. The company I worked for was a sponsor of the parade and they brought me into the corporate GLBT committee.

I agree that there are harms, but for this queer hick from the sticks I'm glad that I went and forever thankful that I was able to meet like-minded people.

[Kizzume]

I'm really glad you posted that.

I keep forgetting what things were like before I came out of the closet. I came out at 17, so it's a bit different for me. If I wouldn't have had groups like Oasis youth group available back then, perhaps the pride march would have been the only way I would have been able to feel like I'm part of a community.